Tamika, I’m so psyched you’re going to talk about compassionate communication and marketing today and how it works with the quiz and how it works, the nurture and…

Yeah, I’m excited too. It’s been a long time coming because I think the first time that we spoke, we’re kind of like there’s definitely going to be a part to possibly four or five of the. We’re like, my gosh, here we go. The same language. Now just how, you know, marketing can feel. So aggressive and so distant and so cold and so pushy and so manipulative.

And now I’m seeing all this stuff generated automatically by A.I. that’s flooding people’s like message. They’re sending us messages. These robots are sending us messages and writing us emails and showing up, pretending to be real people on social media. And I’m just like, wow, Compassionate, nurturing marketing is the only way that we who care about our clients are going to get clients.

Yeah. And keep. Yeah. And then, I mean, the good news is I see that the folks again, those of us who are like, really here to help people. Like, it definitely gives us an unfair advantage. I know it might feel like yes. You know, the ally they can pump out so much content and everybody is doing it and so and so forth.

So there can be that piece of like like, is it a real FOMO or like, am I missing out on something? But I think you’re right. I think at the end of the day, like there is still a disconnect. Sometimes it’s very obvious. Like, I don’t know if you’ve seen some of the jumbo mumbo jumbo I sometimes or just how little it’s kind of like robotic is what is the word you use, right?

So sometimes there is that like the piece of it’s disconnecting because I’m reading the thing and I’m feeling nothing. But even if you even if you read it and it sounds like a human, there is like an energetic disconnect, I believe as well. And so I think in people who really care about people and that’s the come from for their marketing.

Like the energy doesn’t lie and people can feel that. Right. I agree. And I work with a lot of intuitive women, creative women, and and they work with like their clients are also intuitive, creative women and I’m intuitive women can sniff this stuff out. Like if you throw them junk, they’re going to be like, No, I don’t have time for this.

I’m not interested in this. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But it does make it challenging, right? Because again, when the market plays well, you’re looking at what are in new ways and 2024 to help more people out of the hype that they’re really good at will show up at like the top the top listing. So yes I was excited for us to have this conversation around some of the things that we believe in that we are seeing is a more compassionate come from that.

Like, yeah, the energy is aligned from the start and the intention of I’m here to help you, I’m here to help This is the come from. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. Because one thing that’s happening now is in terms of lead generation, in terms of, of meeting people for the first time, of showing them who you are for the first time, the typical like free gift stuff that we’ve been doing for years.

That’s okay. You know, has dropped in conversion so severely over the last couple of years, especially with the pandemic. So now, you know, if you’ve got like an e-book or even a recorded webinar, the range of what’s expected for conversion, it’s like 3 to 5%. So if you’re showing people that opt in page, only 3 to 5% of them are going to actually give you the email and say yes.

And you know, and that’s why I love the quizzes so much, because the quiz opt in rate is like 40 to 60%. It’s yeah. So do you share that? I’m like, okay, what now Say what? I know. But it makes so much sense. It makes so much sense because number one, we’re just like information overload, right? There’s so much information out there that like an e-book, a checklist, whatever.

Do I need to give you my email for that? Or if I just Google a little harder, can I find some information elsewhere? Right. I mean, so like, I get it, but the first time you said that stat, would you say 40 to 60% is the conversion for the quiz, something like that, right. That was, just blew me right away.

Yeah. You said 40 like 40 to 60%, I think 40 to 60. Yeah. And the difference is really if the people have never met, you don’t know you and it’s like an ad on Facebook or something, you’re going to get like 30 to 50% conversion. But 30 to 50% of the people who land on that opt in page from a cold ad are going to give like are going to say yes, that’s like, that’s so many people.

My ad ladies, I work with authentic audience. They’re amazing with ads. And they were looking at my stats and every month they’re just like, Melissa, you did it again. Like we never, ever see results like this from paid advertising. I’m paying like $0.40 an opt in and I’m getting 2500 people a month on my list, 2500 new interested people who’ve completely filled out my quiz.

Yeah, a month on my list. They like less than $1,000 ad spend. They’re like, Nobody’s getting this. Nobody’s getting this. What is this? And I’m like, It’s the quiz. All my ads go to my quiz. And people love the quiz. But it’s not just all quizzes. I was just going to say. I was just going to say that.

Let’s be clear, because I know other parents have a quiz and like they do see the piece of it receiving great conversions, people sign out. But I wouldn’t say that they’re necessarily if they’re playing with ads, I wouldn’t say that they’re necessarily seeing that same ad conversion. And also I would say that for some of the quizzes that I’ve seen, like in some of the businesses that I’ve seen, when I’m looking at like what we’re seeing happen on the other side, I’m not necessarily like it’s not necessarily translating.

So there are definitely some nuances to having a quiz that is more important, right? And they’re really important and yeah, so what’s your like we should talk about those. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Mean some are good though. The biggest mistake people make when they’re like, okay, great, I’ll just make a quiz. Is it make the wrong kind of quiz? So were you and I are really devoted to compassionate communication, and so are people.

We want deep, compassionate. We want to touch people’s hearts. We want to engage with what they what matters to them. We want to help them, whether they hire us or not. We want them to like love and trust and value what we’re giving them. So the key is most people, when they go to make a quiz, they make a quiz that’s like one that you would take in high school.

It’s like, good, are you at this? How far along the path are you with this? Yeah. Products of my would you like and I guess it’s true. And that’s my favorite. Yeah. Instrumental it Yeah it’s transparently like it’s it’s it’s marketing and it feels like marketing and it’s like Hi, nice to meet you. You know, let’s go to bed.

It’s a lot like, No, it’s. You need to actually the first quiz needs to be what I call a magic mirror quiz. I mean, I had to make this up myself because nobody’s talking about this, but the quiz has to be one and it can’t be one in disguise. It can’t be a bait and switch. People are like, what kind of spirit animal are you?

And then you start taking the quiz and they’re like, Which of my products would you like? And you’re like, Wait a minute. So it has to actually has to relate to your unique work. It has to be it has to tell the person something deep about themselves, something important, so that they don’t feel like they’re just wasting their time, you know?

So, like, there’s probably all kinds of people who are interested in working with you to make it towards creating a nurturing campaign that really creates community. But they come at it from different perspectives, right? Maybe there’s some people who are really here to build a movement. Maybe there’s some people who are at this because they’re healers and they’re here to transform the way people experience life in a healthier way.

Maybe there are some people who come at it because they’re here to like, gather community and then share resources, like curate resources for that community, like an A membership and a membership. Yeah, but you don’t you see, are you a membership person or are you a movement person? You you go deeper than that. So the first part, when I work with someone making quizzes or in my quiz class, we go deeper and we’re like, Whoa, like, what are these people really caring about?

How are they different? What are they? What are their stories? And and as we unpack those, what I call archetypes, you identify the archetypes of your clients and of your work. And and then the quiz is like, crafted so that as people are taking this little seven question quiz, they’re seeing themselves and they’re having a giggle and they’re feeling your personality and they’re recognizing they need you.

seven questions. And that takes some strategy, but there’s a system to it. You know, which is what I teach. But the most important thing to me is that as people are taking those seven questions, they feel seen. Yeah, and they they’re engaged with the material and it it feels like an actual free gift, not just gift, but like an actual great gift that they’re receiving.

They’re being given something important so that when they land on like the short results paragraph, after they answer the seven questions, multiple choice questions, they land on that that you’ve written for them and they feel your heart and how much you care about and understand what they care about. And now and then it goes into the follow up, which of course your brilliant expert with follow up where the the conversation from there.

But you already know each other. Exactly. That conversation with trust. With trust, yeah. They enter that conversation with trust. And what I love about it from a what comes next perspective is that like they have trust that you also have an insight to your point that magic mirror means, but you can kind of very much look into their lives as well.

And so you can start to personalize the conversation that you’re having based on how, you know it will resonate with them or how you sense that it’ll resonate with them. So right. So you can be like in any means you’re in this like they’ve got the trust, you’ve got the insight and then the flow of your relationship, the way that it gets to sort of blossom.

It can look a lot different, right? It can look all different verses, everybody getting the same welcome sequence, you know, hi, here’s my story and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like again, that’s where we get very marketing marketing, right? Air quotes because we get you just out of centering our person and we’re centering yourselves in our story instead.

Naturally, that’s often where I feel so, like, feels so icky, right? Because there’s this focus on like, you know, what can me as the business owner tell you and what can I get and how can I get you to work with me? Like nothing like that happens in this sort of flow that we’re talking about, because on the client side, they’re getting deep recognition, feeling really seen and understood.

And like many if depending on what industry are in, but for the intuitive’s and the healers and that kind of thing, like those like your people are really like this may be the first time that they’ve ever felt really, really seen by. Yes, that’s a huge deal for them. And then you get to keep that same feeling going for them.

And the more that they feel trust, the more that that like lean in, I call it the lean in factor. When we’re talking about nurture, the more they’re like, Yeah, this is like, I want to keep going down this conversation on this line of conversation. So I just love I love your approach. And I, you know, selfishly, because I love how it is that people have really they really build to nurture from this, you know, compassionate lens in this time.

This lens, Yeah. And then we can create these nurture sequences after the quiz. Like you say, they feel so personal to this person. Yeah. So a lot of times I’ll be writing emails just for one of the types. Yeah. Like, you know, Hey, transmitter, I know that the energies have been crazy recently. You’re probably feeling it because you’re that sensitive empath.

Like if they’re like, my gosh, these are energy just in me, you know? It’s so, it’s so, it’s connective and it’s compassionate and it feels so different than just like a bucketing quiz that does this segmentation thing. But a bucketing quiz is like, he’s so and so. What’s your greatest struggle? Is it A, B, C, D, E?

It’s like, I’m so bored with that. However, if they’ve done the magic mirror quiz and they feel deeply seen, then after you’ve you know, talked more about what matters, then you can show up with more of like a scored quiz or marketing quiz or a work with me quiz and, and they’re like, they see it as a gift again instead of a pushy, you know, trying to get a date on the first date.

Yeah. Yeah. They’re ready. They’re ready for the fifth day. They’re ready for I also they’re so they’re cool. Yeah. And I think what’s important to just to hit on there because you know like if you’ve got a classes in place already and it’s one of these other ones like we’re not saying here like coupled with that and like you know in the frost yeah.

Through it’s not that at all and it’s really just Yeah no it’s really just thinking about again, this is a whole journey. I was talking about the buyer’s journey, and so this is a whole journey that we’re taking folks along. And so we’re just thinking about like at what stage of the journey, what makes sense if we think about, you know, a standard journey, you go through this place of awareness where you’re really just kind of like aware that things are not working quite the way that we want them to and whatever area we’re focusing on.

And so if someone’s just aware of like certain symptoms kind of showing up, but they’re not really aware of a problem, then like a bucketing quiz or a scoring quiz, that’s maybe not going to not, maybe not. It’s not going to help them because they just get Internet dots that connect, right? Like and they won’t know why, but there is not enough for them to connect.

Or if they do do it, you’re probably not going to get a result that is actually going to help it help you meaningfully support them, because what they needed instead was, you know, more of this awareness that you can really tap into. Exactly. Yeah. And keep in mind that I’m right now. Yeah. And keep in mind, you guys, that the marketplace has changed.

People are more skeptical. People are more cynical people. I get you know, sometimes people will write in like, I didn’t take your quiz because I had to give my email and I write them back. I’m like, No, you don’t. You can actually skip that step if you want to. I don’t want anybody on my email list who doesn’t want to be there, and they write what they can’t even– That’s a thing.

Like Yeah, it’s a thing. This is a gift. Go ahead. Just enjoy the free results. If you want to engage with me, give me your email because then I’ll send you more information. They’re like, I will give you my email. So it’s just people are so skeptical, they’re so cynical. They’ve been abused so many times by not compassionate marketing.

Right. That starting with something that’s like hard driving like that, it just doesn’t work. Like not only is it not kind in our opinion, but it doesn’t work anymore. That’s why the conversions dropped so hard. So that’s why the confusion, the conversions for quiz are still high. But did I say completion? Because that’s a different thing where they opting for the quiz.

They’re there, they’re taking the quiz. But do they finish the quiz? Do they read the next email that you send them? Right. Right. That’s the part that if if it is a magic mirror, they will because it’s about them. Like you said, it centers on them and then the follow up centers on them. Yeah. And then the next deeper dive quiz that gets all that pre qualifying information that you want, they know they can trust you with that information because you’ve already given them so much good reflection and guidance and you’ve been honest with them about who you are and what the work is.

So the people who aren’t that interested in the work will just float away and that’s fine. It’s fine. Yeah, it’s just so consensual, you know? It’s just so. Yes, it’s Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. I love it. I love it. Yeah. There’s a thing, too, that can happen that’s that builds community. And I know that you’re. You’ve noticed that with your work too.

To me, how people, when they’re really treated with the kind of respect we’re talking about, they start to form community automatically. I’ve seen people both with my quiz and with other quizzes that I help people make. Then the people who’ve taken the quiz start to form their own communities, like on Facebook, like I read people form their own, like, this is the transmitter group from from Melissa Simon’s quiz, and I don’t even know about it for a while.

And somebody is like, maybe we should let Mellissa know they’re all having meetings over here. So I’m like, Who is that other coach is so cool. It’s super cool. And we know that people love to find ways of belonging and ways of relating, right? We see that because there’s all kinds of you know, we’ve always we’ve always, I think as a culture loved quizzes and, you know, these assessments and these different things that tell us about ourselves so we can connect with other people who are who are similar.

But I don’t think anyone ever thinks of their own business as being something that people would do that around. So I really love this. Yeah, this new sort of with the technology tools that we have and how easy it is to kind of create a group. I love the idea that, yeah, the community, the community is building and I think to know for like on the other side when they do step in and and work with you, I think what’s cool is you see that same kind of bonding people are introducing themselves.

They’re like, I’m a transmitter, I’m a, you know, whatever, a different kind, different archetype. Yeah. And that’s creates like an instant connection within your program as well. So it’s like it’s helping folks before they work with you. And then when they do step in to work with you as well, they’re there’s a community aspect that we can’t just manufacture like they do.

That true. You know, But you’ve created this from your own lexicon. Yeah. Yeah. Like a community language that your folks can all utilize together. And that’s especially exciting, I think, with businesses, coaches and healers and, you know, people who are here for transformation into to offer something new for people that maybe they haven’t been thinking about, it’s such a glorious way to create new language that can be shared and create community and cohesion and respect words for things that you never talked about before, but they’re always present in the room.

Yeah, it’s just it’s really profound. I think people really need deep acknowledgment these days because we’re all getting blasted. And now with all these marketing messages that are so impersonal and, and, you know, I really I love the client journey. The way you map it out, Tamika. And the the the pathway that you help us see of really creating a relationship with our people, not just not just having it be a one sided hammer, which we’re also tired of.

And and I just I kind of see like quiz the the up front magic mirror quiz and then the like commitment quiz that I have people take before they get on like a session or, you know, or, or sales call or whatever. And then like the scored quizzes that help people see where they’re at on the journey, come later, come later.

Yeah. It’s just really it’s a way to help automate some of the conversations that you’re helping people build, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they become, from my perspective, they become kind of like the visual and seeing is like turnstiles, you know, in the subway or whatever. Like they’re yeah, they’re following you in the right place if you’re going that way.

A great if you’re going that way, great. If you’re going that way, great. Yeah. And they become the hub of of the journey a little bit and these kind of key points, are they, are they going to be ready to step in and work with me the next six months? Great. I’m going to know that if they’re not, that’s cool.

You know, I can keep nurturing them over there. But yeah, you can create some really cool automations to support people along their journey, but doing so in a way that still feels very high integrity, very focused on their journey, not yours. Compassionate, right? Like and that’s the way when I think in email marketing funnels, there’s the old school way, the marketing way of like, you know, seven day quick and dirty, like let’s get married, you know, tomorrow sequence.

And then there can be the right, the, you know, slow, slow it down. Let’s ask Birkenstocks now. Let’s move through these. Go deeper, you know these pieces. Let’s go deeper, you know. And there was a time when those those seven day bro marketing things did something. But it’s true it’s very few in firm working more now the just the yeah the buying cycle has changed you know we’ve changed the way we communicate and relate change and I think above all are people are looking for what’s real.

It’s just increasingly hard to know what’s real and who’s real and who can really help me and who is authentic and who, you know, especially if you’re having a coach review or something like that. Like, is this person really, you know, do they really, really know me? And and are they going to go to the mat? Yeah. Transformation.

And I just back to your point, the magic mirror method is is kind of one of the greatest ways that I’ve seen in starting that relationship with making that the under the tone or in the overtone really like you know from the start you know Yeah, yeah. Well I’m so happy to be with you and this and, and I just want to kind of lambdas back on a point that you made earlier, which is, hey, if you’re a compassionate, heart centered business owner who’s really offering something from your care and your compassion, you have an unfair advantage in the current marketplace.

Use it. You know, use your compassion, use your empathy. The quiz is one really good tool for that. But what’s really important is something that both Tamika and I have been focused on for for our long careers, supporting lots and lots of people with this, which is to to to inject compassion and personalization into your into your languages, into your marketing.

Create a plan for that kind of long term, you know, deep, compassionate collection connection and then long term, yeah, passionate nurture because those two things together give you this incredibly huge advantage over all these people that are pouring money into A.I. that just dumps garbage right? FIELDS Yeah, absolutely. I think the piece the piece as well, again, is just like there’s the unfair advantage.

And then the other piece is that, you know, if you’re here in our world, like you really are here to help. And I just know that approaching marketing, understanding that there is a way to help everybody, that your work interacts with, whether they ever hire you. Like that’s the piece that you spoke to and that drives me like so, so much.

There is a way to do marketing like that. And you know what we’ve been talking about here, Like those are these are the clues. These are clues for how you start to do that. It’s let go of everything that’s telling you that the first thing you need to do is make a sale. And if you’re not, you know, pitch in today, not pitch in every day for you from the start that you’re losing out or you’re not not in it for business or what have you.

The transformation doesn’t just start when the transaction happens and my experience has been and this is like with, you know, some of the more established clients that I’ve worked with, the better they are at Nurture the and the better they are. Like even before nurture, the better they are understanding their people, which is what happens with the mirror reflecting.

Yeah, yeah. Quiz, magic, mirror quiz. And then the better they get at nurture their clients have better transformation when they do work, work with them. But again, they’ve got that like, you know, Ambassador, I want to say cult following, but but that’s the marketing adage that came to my head. But it’s it’s this community that that centered around the work and they haven’t even paid money yet.

They do eventually, but they haven’t even they’re getting better results when they do. But even up until that point they feel so serves as seen to serve by you that they built community around. And that’s just a really, I think for for our and perhaps for our intuitive’s for our people who give a crap and want to actually contribute to change like that just means so much.

Yeah, yeah. It’s everything. It’s everything. We came here to serve people and it’s not just the people who work with us. It’s whoever can receive what we have to bring. And when we take that attitude, even with marketing, then are then the people that are meant to really deeply invest with us and in the work will. And so it’s a super win win.

It’s a super win-win. I totally agree with what you just conveyed. It’s yeah, Thank you, love. Yeah, this is a great conversation. So you guys talk. We would, you know, we could talk 6 hours, but we’ll stop when we reach out. Maybe someday we will within about like we talk to us. You’ve got, you’ve got us as as allies and, you know, helpers and mentors.

If you’re if you’re wondering about doing more of this yourself, reach out. Reach out to one or both of us, because this is what we do. Yeah, it’s a little late. And we’d love to help. Thanks. my pleasure. Okay.